Down with monarchy
I mentioned somewhere that the ruckus about Prince Harry’s Nazi uniform was missing the point. Mark Lawson touches on it here: “While Harry’s costume was shocking, it seems equally astonishing that, in 2005, there is a section of society in which it is not considered odd for a teenager to throw a party with the theme of “colonial or native” and at which, according to some reports, young male guests blacked up their faces. The implication of much coverage is that Harry misjudged the party mood, but perhaps he merely took the nasty theme to its logical conclusion.”
[...] proclaiming that there’s no such thing as political correctness – and on the other, Rob Corr fulminating not that Prince Harry wore a Nazi costume to a costume party, but t [...]
Harry’s a dickhead and wants a kick in the arse for being stupid, but I wonder if the outcry would’ve been the same if he’d dressed as Stalin or as a Soviet soldier. The USSR was at least as bad as the Nazis … and for much longer. (BTW I’m not suggesting that the criticism of Harry isn’t justified, just that there is an element of political motivation in that criticism whereas his actions were not, I don’t believe, an indication of Harry’s politics. Bit convoluted, that, but I hope you get what I mean.)
John, I don’t particularly care that he wore a Nazi uniform. Big deal, it was a fancy-dress party. But for the British upper class to continue holding “colonial and native” parties where the object is to celebrate oppression and denigrate the colonised? That’s not so easily brushed aside as a joke.
It was a private party given by Richard Meade. I very much doubt that the aim was to “celebrate oppression and denigrate the colonised.” I think that’s tired and predictable class warfare spin. People frequently turn up in questionable attire at gay uniform parties, for instance. Would anyone seriously suggest that gay S and M apparel is designed to “celebrate oppression and denigrate the oppressed.”
As I said, there is nothing wrong with wearing a Nazi uniform to a fancy dress party, gay or straight. But would it be appropriate for a group that oppressed gay people to hold a “queers and queer-bashers” party?
I seem to remember a bunch of NSW police being rightly stood down a couple of years ago for pretty much the same thing—they’d organised a fancy dress party where a bunch of them came in blackface, with nooses around their necks, as famous Aboriginal deaths in custody.
“Ha ha, I’m David Gundy”.
It’s not the costumes, it’s the power relationship.
Hear Hear, Rob and Liam. It’s a very good point.
I think the whole thing is over rated. No-one ever objected to Hogan’s Heros so why this?
“But would it be appropriate for a group that oppressed gay people to hold a “queers and queer-bashers” party?”
They’re called “straight parties” Rob and they happen all the time. It’s just that the hosts don’t generally have access to the Guardian’s take on their hidden, nefarious intent :). It may be terrifyingly naive of me but I suspect that Meade just wanted to have fun. I think you’re overdoing the outrage. If you haven’t got a problem with people doing Nazi insignia for fancy dress, why would you get your knickers in a twist about the supposed “true motivation” for people throwing the fancy dress party in the first place?
If Harry wants to be an ordinary bloke with ordinary privacy and go to ordinary parties he can get off the civil list, give back his inheritance and go to trade school like everyone else. Until then, his appearance round the traps is part of his professional career as a symbol and masscult recipient.
He is supposed to be able to anticipate the potential irritation and avoid it. He would, after all, not turn up at a gay uniform party, whether he has the right to or not. Because he would predict how it would be taken.
As he should have predicted how this will be taken. Would you want to be some squaddy with this article as a hofficer? At least, if you could contrive to stay close to him, you will never get close to anywhere remotely dangerous.
ps – I think it would be terrific if he DID turn up at a gay uniform party, but that is another issue..
Come off it: “overdoing the outrage”? This is the only post I’ve made, and it runs to a whopping four sentences (including a quotation)!
They’re called “straight parties” Rob
I assume this is something held by members of the gay community. I’m afraid it’s quite the opposite of Harry’s mate’s shindig — if someone in a former colony wanted to throw a party to take the piss out of their former colonial rulers, I wouldn’t have a problem with it at all.
“if someone in a former colony wanted to throw a party to take the piss out of their former colonial rulers, I wouldn’t have a problem with it at all.”
I’m sure they do. But what’s that got to do with you confidently asserting from 12,000 miles away that Richard Meade is clearly a colonialist oppressor who holds parties deliberately aimed at celebrating the fact?
Celebs have personal lives, and as a rule I think we should stay out of them. This is one such instance, as was with Clinton. Personally, I couldnt give a fuck either way.
Oh come on, Geoff. He’s wealthy, powerful and connected to the Royal family. Are you seriously suggesting that he (or his parents and grandparents) did not benefit from the colonial project? It is an offensive choice of theme for a party, whether by design or negligence.
Lots of people benefitted from the “colonial project” Rob, including many of those who were colonised.
The fact is that it was never undertaken at the behest of the Royal family. They are no more responsible for colonialism than any other English citizens.
By the way, Harry has lost the benefit of the doubt I gave him on his previous brush with racism. That is why the “colonials and natives” mindset is disgusting.
Wow. I guess poor Harry is added to the 99.85% of living humans on the “people Rob thinks is a racist” list.
What is it with you and defending people who are caught with connections to the Nazis?
Rob, lefties overwhelmingly oppose Nazis. Therefore, even though they hate Nazism just as much as the rest of us, many righties (including, alas, poor old Sam) feel a knee-jerk need to jump to Nazis’ defence, not because the Nazi is worth defending, but because a lefty cause is worth opposing, even if you agree with it.
For the same reason, we occasionally see lefties throwing themselves in front of Stalin in a vain effort to prevent righties from pointing out stuff we all agree with anyway. It’s stupid and pathetic, but when has that ever stopped anyone?
“Oh come on, Geoff. He’s wealthy, powerful and connected to the Royal family.”
Yep. Clearly sub-human with Heydrichian tendencies on those impressively convincing criteria. I guess this EzyFix labelling takes all the effort out of forming a balanced view……..This isn’t the right time to acknowledge it but you really are much smarter than this.
Thanks for the backhanded compliment, Geoff, but I’m sure you don’t really think the party was entirely inoffensive, or that he shouldn’t have known better. I suspect he chose the theme specifically to chortle with his fox-hunting chums about how awfully stuffy those middle-class PC lefties are.
Robert: For one thing, because you routinely get off on falsely accusing people of being Nazis and/or racists.
Secondly, it gives me pleasure to continue to expose your hypocrisy and double standards.
I suspect he chose the theme specifically to chortle with his fox-hunting chums about how awfully stuffy those middle-class PC lefties are.
Yup, and as it turns out he was absolutely right. The response from the PC crowd could not have been more predictable.
“but I’m sure you don’t really think the party was entirely inoffensive, or that he shouldn’t have known better.”
I most certainly do think that the party was inoffensive. On the question of should Meade have “known better’ I’m less convinced. I do know that the only person involved who is clearly guilty of profound moral turpitude is the person who flogged the pic to the Sun for 10 grand – albeit on entirely altruistic grounds, no doubt.
“reflective of a subculture somewhat out of touch with the modern world, “writes Mark Lawson.
“from 12,000 miles away” writes Geoff Honor eagerly awating the arrival of the next clipper ship.
Meade’s a twat. No need of new fangled telegraphy to be most certain of that.
Gerry’s T-Shirt Wars
Hendo’s jumped on the communist t-shirt bandwagon that had the blogosphere rolling last week with posts at Troppo, Catallaxy and Quiggin. Gerry excuses Prince Harry’s wardrobe malfunction because the third in line heir to the Australian throne is “i…
“The response from the PC crowd could not have been more predictable.”
Yeah… damn all those whiners at Yad Vashem. Why don’t they all just lighten up?
I think the Nazis have enough bad press already – without now being also associated with the House of Windsor…again.
a) – The USSR was at least as bad as the Nazis and for much longer? Really? After Stalin the USSR was never anywhere near as bad as it had been during his reign. So let’s take Stalin’s worst excesses. Let’s take 1936 to 1953. Let’s be liberal and say Stalin killed 30 million people in a 17 year period (the figure given is usually between ten and 30 million) – both through the fucked-up Second Year Plan and deliberately through the gulag system.
The Nazis started the Second World War which killed at least 55 million people between 1939 and 1945. That’s 55 million in six years. Between 1933 and 1939 there was an additional huge number of Jews, Communists, Socialists, homosexuals, disabled people, libertarians, gypsies, trade unionists etc etc murdered by the Nazi regime. Let’s not even consider INTENT and look at the number of people the Nazis might have killed if Nazi Germany had won the war and survived until 1991.
Stalin as bad as Hitler? Sure. The USSR as bad as the Nazis? Fuck no.
b) Colonial and Native is an odd and mildly offensive theme for a party. Let’s look at some fun colonialists and their benefitting natives throughout history:
i – The Spanish in the Caribbean and Central America. 5 million Taino killed in 3 years from 1493 – 1496. Approximately 24 million native Americans killed between 1519 and 1605.
ii – The Spanish, English and French in all the Americas 1492 – 1600. Native American population reduced by 90% in 108 years.
iii – The Indonesians in East Timor. Over 200,000 (one third of the population) killed in 24 years.
Well I could ramble all night, but I won’t.
c) Harry’s Nazi get-up didn’t really fit the theme, unless you consider the Nazis’ war-time occupation of France, Poland, the Netherlands as colonialism. Of course, if they’d won – they would have stuck around and killed all the natives. So I guess if the theme was “Colonial and Exterminated Native” it would have made more sense. But it wasn’t. And it would have still been stupid and offensive to dress as a Nazi.
Anyway, a friend of mine went as Heinrich Himmler to a Good vs Evil themed thing. Himmler was evil. More importantly my friend wasn’t a member of any Royal family, or a prominent politician or a prominent anything. Or any kind of role model to anyone.
d) Do you think he inherited the uniform from Edward VIII? Hmm. No, Edward would have got the swastika right.
e) Harry may or may not be a racist, but he’s most certainly a dick.
– The Spanish in the Caribbean and Central America. 5 million Taino killed in 3 years from 1493 – 1496. Approximately 24 million native Americans killed between 1519 and 1605.
ii – The Spanish, English and French in all the Americas 1492 – 1600. Native American population reduced by 90% in 108 years.
iii – The Indonesians in East Timor. Over 200,000 (one third of the population) killed in 24 years.
Can’t you come up with any bad examples of English colonialism Gio? I doubt Harry’s party was a celebration of SPANISH colonialism.
At least Gio has tried to put some examples forward of when the whiny left would deem it acceptable to wear a nazi uniform (Answer: When a leftist does it, and only when it’s clear THEY DONT ACTUALLY APPROVE OF NAZIS).
Everyone else here is still planning on taking it case by case, with themselves as judge and jury.
How many times has it been pointed out to you so far that the uniform was not the problem?
Harry must be the perfect potential Head of State. Why, he’s gotten some lefties pissed off! Fuck, it’s worth being a monarchist just to achieve that result. Yee-ha!
I suspect Gio didn’t point out any results of English colonialism because he didn’t want to start an off-topic war about Aborigines, American Indians, etc., and good on him, too.
The English killed a lot of people in India, which wasn’t very polite of them.
Anyway, I think Sam missed the point on when it’s ok to dress as a Nazi. The bloke in question was dressing as someone evil for a Good vs Evil theme, and is not a leader of any kind. even though Harry’s only a ‘leader’ in a vaguely, psuedo-political, cultural way. If he’d just been some random his outfit would have been stupidly inapplicable to the fucked party theme, but not as foul.
I used to like Harry because he was a drunken, pot-smoking, journo-punching embarassment. Such a pitty he’s gone down hill.
Oh yeah, and Sam – take a closer look at point (b) ii or my original comment in regards to my failure to bring up a bad example of English colonialism.
There’s a hand-written letter from the English commander in Canada around the time of Pondiak giving the order to distribute blankets infected with small pox to the native civilians. It’s pretty compelling evidence.
There’s a hand-written letter from the English commander in Canada around the time of Pondiak giving the order to distribute blankets infected with small pox to the native civilians. It’s pretty compelling evidence.
My first response was “hyperlinks please?”, but then realised that it’d be hard to hyperlink to a handwritten letter – unless it’s on CBS’s web site.
(Wouldn’t any instructions those days have been hand-written unless he used one of those new-fangled printing presses invented by that subversive Mr Gutenberg? Unless you mean that it wasn’t dictated…)
I saw it on a doco on Pondiak, the native American warrior, and watched footage of the letter so we could read it ourselves. I will sniff around for it. Shouldn’t be too hard. (and it yes was handwritten).
Here you go.
http://www.bbc.co.u … x_weapon_01.shtml
But since the BBC are such bleeding heart Left wing black arm-banders, here’s another…
http://edition.cnn.c … 5/fenn/
and this one’s my favourite
http://www.college.ucla.ed … dianssmallpox.html
I like the bit where he says “try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execrable Race.”
And this one refers to a different example of the same benefit of colonialism:
http://www.thefurt … ian_smallpox.htm